Talk:The Sky
Climate? Why does the climate say "Warm"? Is the entire Sky just...warm? —[[User:Ceiling Master|'Ceiling']] [[User talk:Ceiling Master|'Master']] 02:07, January 20, 2012 (UTC) :Yeah, as I often find, the climate infobox entry wasn't very good, so I removed it.--[[User:Fierce Deku|'Fierce']][[User talk:Fierce Deku|'Deku']] 04:36, January 20, 2012 (UTC) Capitalizing "The Sky" No part of term "The Sky" should be capitalized in the english language, and it is not capitalized in the game either. Same goes for "The Surface". I'm going to replace all of these references with things like the surface and the sky soon. This seems to me like a completely clear cut action, but since it is a mass edit, I'm posting this to give people a chance to speak out against the idea just in case.--[[User:Fierce Deku|'Fierce']][[User talk:Fierce Deku|'Deku']] 06:34, March 8, 2012 (UTC) :I completely disagree. Again, it conflicts with the regular way of doing things, and makes things look completely messy. This isn't really such a big problem, and I find it would be a disservice to the wiki as a whole to do it that way. Your affirmative action attitude isn't appreciated either. --AuronKaizer ' 10:16, March 8, 2012 (UTC) ::Ok, in that case, what exactly is the justification for going against both the english language and the games themselves? This would not be the first time links were not capitalized. Reference to the sky/surface aren't even consistently upper case at the moment.--[[User:Fierce Deku|'Fierce]][[User talk:Fierce Deku|'Deku']] 10:38, March 8, 2012 (UTC) :::The justification is that we make our articles proper nouns even if they aren't proper in the game. That in itself may seem self-defeating, but it is the way we have always done things and I'm sure you know that by now. If a character isn't given a true name in the games, we still capitalize their substitute names as if they are proper names (example: Bean Seller). The same should apply to what we consider countries/lands. Even if the games themselves do not capitalize these, the wiki runs on a separate system where we stay consistent with the titles and names we give our articles (example: World of the Ocean King is not capitalized in-game, but is capitalized on the wiki). That said, if you want to draw the comparison to articles like bomb and arrow (things we generally do not capitalize), this is more difficult to address. Simply put, these items are the same to their real world counterparts and we do not typically consider them proper nouns, much like they don't in-game. But for something like the sky, it is different. It is true that in proper English, we do not capitalize sky. If someone says 'the sky is blue', it would be incorrect to capitalize sky. But on the wiki, we are dealing with a whole different universe. In that universe and on this wiki, we consider the "sky" to be its own type of territory; one in which we would consider a proper term by our standards (as if we were talking about Antarctica). As for the "The"s in front of the sky and surface... I don't really know about that. Its probably debatable that they should be capitalized or even there at all. That's something I don't really have any interest in arguing for or against because it has no real backing of consistency to support it either way. --EveryDayJoe45 (talk) 13:48, March 8, 2012 (UTC) ::::The Sky is referred to as that, with that capitalization and the "The" in front, on the map screen. Not sure about The Surface, though. Xykeb Yvolix '' '' 17:31, March 8, 2012 (UTC) :::::As far as I'm aware, we treat names of locations and characters as proper nouns on the wiki even when the games do not. As Joe said, The Sky and The Surface definitely are not the only thing we do this for. Jedimasterlink (talk) 17:56, March 8, 2012 (UTC) ::::::Alright then, I can't say I agree with the reasoning but if that's the standard, then ok. Sorry I didn't realize this, the capitalization is not consistent enough on the wiki for me to derive such a rule simply by reading articles. And Xykeb, on the map screen and the title bar that comes up when you enter the sky, it capitalizes "The" and "Sky", because it's a title. Every other point in the game, when "the sky" is being used in a sentence, there is no capitalization. Since the surface is never a specific location on a map and only comes up in sentences, it is never capitalized in the text dump.--[[User:Fierce Deku|'Fierce']][[User talk:Fierce Deku|'Deku']] 20:41, March 8, 2012 (UTC) :::::::I believe the standard is to capitalize terms coined in the actual games, while stuff clearly based off of real life items, i.e. bombs, arrows, etc. are not capitalized. There's still kind of a gray area, though, such as with Rupees (which we do capitalize, I believe), which are named after a real life currency but don't actually resemble real rupees physically. As for The Sky and The Surface, I am aware that in conversation the terms are never capitalized, but in regards to The Sky, what you said is kind of the idea, I believe: The Sky is the region's "title", so to speak. I guess an analogy would be that the U.S. as a country may sometimes be referred to as the "States", capitalized, while we regard the actual places inside as simply "states", not capitalized. As for The Surface, well...consistency, I guess. I don't feel really strongly either way about that one. Xykeb Yvolix '' '' 21:11, March 8, 2012 (UTC) Would you write "London" as london, or America as america? Places need capitalizations. The Sky and the Surface are places, so they would have to be capitalized. I really do not know where we got the idea of capitalizing "the"s. The word "the" is not a noun, it does not need capitalization - unless it starts a sentence. Only nouns and titles need capitalization, never the word "the". So the Surface would be the Surface, and The Sky must always be "the Sky." DarkIngRidley 21:30, March 8, 2012 (UTC) :The sky is not a country. The english language does not treat it as such, the game does not treat it as such, and the capitalization rules used in both of these do not capitalize the term. Only proper nouns are capitalized, not all places; under normal rules the sky is no more worthy of capitalization than your living room. The justification here is apparently that the wiki should intentionally go against normal english capitalization and in-game capitalization for the sake of making any location with a page about it a capitalized term. I don't see the benefit in this myself and think it's confusing, looks unprofessional, and makes maintaining a clear or consistent standard unnecessarily difficult, but since most people here have the opposite opinion, that's what we go with.--[[User:Fierce Deku|'Fierce']][[User talk:Fierce Deku|'Deku']] 21:44, March 8, 2012 (UTC) ::About the other point, I'd don't know if we should capitalize the "The" in front of sky/surface or not. Normal rules wouldn't, but we're using abnormal rules here. If we're going to capitalize "Sky", I'd capitalize "The" also if we're using that as part of the link, since that would make it part of the "proper name" (Link goes to The Sky,), but if we're just linking via Sky, leave it lower case (Link goes to the Sky).--[[User:Fierce Deku|'Fierce']][[User talk:Fierce Deku|'Deku']] 21:56, March 8, 2012 (UTC) :::By our not-entirely-standard rules, the former is more appropriate here. Jedimasterlink (talk) 19:51, March 10, 2012 (UTC) :Well, The Sky is treated as a location, and locations are nouns, thus leading for it to be "The Sky" for eternity. Paradox64 ::We've established that we are going to capitalize The Sky on this wiki because of our policy on location names. For the sake of helping people write correctly in other situations, I'm going to reiterate that the sky would not be capitalized anywhere else but Zeldapedia, even if referring to the sky from SS. Words you just used such as "location", "noun", and "eternity" are also nouns, that doesn't mean you capitalize them. Look at the SS text dump or google around for sentences containing the word sky and you'll see that it's not capitalized.--[[User:Fierce Deku|'Fierce']][[User talk:Fierce Deku|'Deku']] 22:13, March 10, 2012 (UTC) :::I'd like to point out that I'm not necessarily agreeing with the current ZP standard; I actually think it is a bit strange. Frankly, doing anything about it would be extremely tedious, even more so than moving the stub templates, and I'm not entirely sure that a bot would be able to help us. Then again, I know next to nothing about how the bots work, so who knows. Jedimasterlink (talk) 00:15, March 11, 2012 (UTC)